Subject: [fwtk-users] Use of firewall toolkit as your company's firewall

From: Andrew Price <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 20 Aug 2002 11:00:42 +0100 (BST)

I've noticed a number of messages in the firewall toolkit list archives
regarding use of the toolkit software as part of a company's firewall.
By this I mean protecting yourself from third parties (and/or the
Internet) by using the software. I do not mean use of it in any sense of
making a product or distributing it with a product.

The comments from the archives indicate that the toolkit licence allows
you to do this, however we have been in discussion with Secure Computing
(who bought Gauntlet this year)  and they have stated that we need to
purchase Gauntlet licences to cover our use of the toolkit. This will of
course involve a considerable spend by us to do this.

The comments in the archives are all from non TIS/Gauntlet personnel. My
question to the mailinig list is therefore - does anybody have anything
direct from TIS/Gauntlet confirming that use of the toolkit within a
commercial organisation is within the scope of the licence,
alternatively does anyone have anything they could share regarding
having purchased any licences to cover their use of the toolkit

Thanks

Andrew

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From: Joseph S D Yao <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 16:18:10 -0400

> course involve a considerable spend by us to do this.

If this were true, this would be quite upsetting.  However, I
understand that SCC bought Gauntlet, but that TIS Labs is still part of
NAI!  And TIS Labs owns FWTK, ISTM.

However, my beliefs are not definitive, much as I would prefer them to
be.  ;->

> The comments in the archives seem to be from non TIS/Gauntlet/NAI
> personnel. My
> direct from TIS/Gauntlet/NAI confirming that use of the toolkit within a

Yes.

And there should be several similar comments in the archive from people
who were TIS employees at the time.

> having purchased any licences to cover their use of the toolkit

In the sense used above, I trust not!!!

-- 
Joe Yao				[email-masked] - Joseph S. D. Yao
OSIS Center Systems Support					EMT-B
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   This message is not an official statement of OSIS Center policies.

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From: Keith Young <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 16:02:12 -0400

> having purchased any licences to cover their use of the toolkit

The traditional feeling from NAI was that you could:
	1) use it in a commercial setting, as long as you worked for the 
commercial entity/company
	2) could not bundle it with a for-sale product or charge for patches
	3) could not redistribute it
	4) could charge for assistance/consulting, but only as part of a larger 
consulting contract

Of course, you shouldn't listen to me but should instead contact your 
attorney. :-)

This is especially true since SC bought the product...

-- 

-- 
--Keith Young
[email-masked]

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From: Joseph S D Yao <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:13:32 -0400

On Tue, Sep 03, 2002 at 04:02:12PM -0400, Keith Young wrote:
...
> This is especially true since SC bought the product...
...

But, did it?

SCC bought Gauntlet, but TIS Labs [owner of FWTK] is still part of NAI.
Or so I understand.

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From: Joseph S D Yao <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 17:29:27 -0400

More on this:

>From the press release:

"Santa Clara and San Jose, CA, February 13, 2002 - Secure Computing
Corporation (NASDAQ: SCUR), a leading provider of enterprise network
access control solutions and Network Associates, Inc. (NYSE: NET), a
leading provider of network security and availability solutions, today
announced that Secure Computing will acquire Network Associates'
Gauntlet[tm] firewall and VPN business. Network Associates' Gauntlet
customers worldwide will be transitioned to Secure Computing,
developers of the Sidewinder[tm] Firewall and VPN Gateway. 

"Under the terms of the agreement, Secure Computing will acquire the
Gauntlet firewall/VPN business assets from Network Associates for an
undisclosed amount; including the Gauntlet firewall/VPN software, the
firewall E-ppliance product line, and all of the related customer
support contracts.  ..."

Nothing about FWTK.  Then again, software that does not command a price
may not be of interest to business leeches.

By contrast, there are mentions of FWTK on TISlabs [NAIlabs] Web pages,
the mailing list is still out of NAI, and the ftp.tislabs.com FTP site
still has FWTK stuff on it.

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From: Keith Young <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 03 Sep 2002 17:52:41 -0400

> still has FWTK stuff on it.

Actually, I spoke to someone at SC immediately after the purchase (okay, 
I begged for the FWTK to be GPL). He said that the SC lawyers are going 
to look into the FWTK further. I haven't heard anything back.

Based on that, I would assume that SC still has ownership of the toolkit.

-- 

-- 
--Keith Young
[email-masked]

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From: Ted Keller <[email-masked]>
Date: Tue, 3 Sep 2002 18:16:38 -0400 (EDT)

So what happened to the DARPA funds that developed the fwtk?  Also, in the
early days, I actually purchased support for the tool-kit from TIS.  That
certainly implied that it was valid to operate that software in a
commercial envrionment.  They actually, at that time, certified the
implementation on my firewall in my company....

This may mean nothing now.

ted keller

On Tue, 3 Sep 2002, Keith Young wrote:

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